Who’s the Real Villain? A “Once Upon a Disney” Discussion

June 12, 2025

By Larry Brenner, faculty, writing for TV, screen, and stage

In our conversations on the Once Upon a Disney podcast, my co-host Andie Redwine and I had a discussion of who we thought the true villain of Peter Pan (1953) was. While the obvious answer is Captain Hook, I’ve always read Peter Pan as having a more subtle, sinister force operating behind the scenes. I recently revisited this conversation as we are preparing our book—working title Write Like a Mouse: Analyzing Disney Movies to Develop Your Craft.

Andie: Who’s the real villain of this movie?

Larry: I don’t think it’s Captain Hook. He’s the antagonist. But I think there is a significantly darker force in this movie—and that is Neverland itself.

Andie: Neverland is the villain? Say more, Larry!

Larry: Peter Pan lives in Neverland—but if it’s fun to be in Neverland, why is he sitting outside of Wendy’s window? What brings him there? Why does his shadow run away from him? Why does it flee to Wendy and not stay with him?

I’m going to argue there is a part of Peter Pan that wants to escape Neverland and that does not want to be there anymore—that this endless paradise, this endless children’s game gets boring for him. He’s coming to Wendy because she has new stories for him—new games to play, new ideas because he’s getting bored, and he needs something new.

There’s a part of Peter that wants to stay with Wendy—the shadow exemplifies that. So he comes up with a brilliant idea—“Why don’t I take Wendy back to Neverland? Wendy will make Neverland good again.”

Neverland itself, exemplified in part by Tinkerbell, treats Wendy like she is a germ infecting Paradise. Neverland has an antibody response to Wendy. Tinkerbell does not want Wendy there. The first thing she does is to force the Lost Boys to try to shoot Wendy down. Peter Pan intervenes, saving Wendy’s life. Wendy wants to see the mermaids, and the mermaids try to drown her. What does the mermaid say—one of my favorite lines? “We were just going to drown her a little . . .”

But they keep trying to get rid of her to the point when they are with the Neverland natives, two things happen to marginalize Wendy. First, Tiger Lily kisses Peter, and Peter gets all red in the face. Part of the way Neverland responds to Wendy is by asking, “How can we address Peter’s needs for companionship without this Wendy girl?” I think Neverland creates Tiger Lily to be a better foil for Peter—a better partner, a better romantic option. He can still play games, right? It’ll still be an adventure. Tiger Lily is here.

The other thing that happens almost simultaneously is this mean, semi-matriarchal figure of the Neverland natives comes out and tells Wendy she can’t play with all the others. “Girls don’t play; girls work.” She says it in much uglier language than I’m saying it. Neverland does not want Wendy to stay. It is an unpleasant experience for her at every turn. They want to push her away.

Why? Wendy represents a real threat to Neverland. Because if Peter falls in love with Wendy, it will make him want to grow up. And if he grows up, Neverland is done. Tinkerbell is done. This world of imagination fades away. I think what we actually see in the course of this movie is the villain wins—Neverland keeps its claws in Peter. Is that a dark interpretation?

Andie: No, I don’t think it’s that dark. When Wendy dreams of Neverland and says, “I’ll be a mermaid in the lagoon,” I think she’s like Peter Pan in a lot of ways where she is refusing to grow up. But when Neverland starts attacking her, Neverland forces her to grow up. Because if she stays there in that place, she’s just going to be hurt.

You can’t just stay a child. You can look back at childhood fondly. You can tell stories about it. You can introduce your own children to childhood. But at some point, you have to grow up.

Larry: Here’s the other thing I want to throw out: I think this is the greatest battle between Hook and Peter there has ever been. I think part of the reason is Wendy makes Peter vulnerable in a way in which Peter has never been vulnerable before.

Because Neverland is so focused on getting rid of Wendy, it’s not paying attention to Hook. So when Hook comes in with his sly organ music and his proposition to Tinkerbell, Peter is put in a very real danger. I don’t think there’s ever been a serious moment where Peter might have died except for the bomb. Hook gets closer to his objective than he’s ever gotten before.

Andie: Hook’s able to seduce Tinkerbell in a way he’s never been able to before. It was always clear Tinkerbell couldn’t be persuaded. But now she’s jealous of Wendy, and she’s all “well, I’ll show her.”

Larry: Her life is on the line in the sense that if Peter falls in love with Wendy, is he going to say he doesn’t believe in fairies? And then Tinkerbell dies?

Andie: So Wendy is a definite threat to everything. Wendy growing up is a threat to this entire world.

For more conversations like this, check out our Once Upon a Disney podcast. You can find it here (or just about anywhere podcasts stream): https://www.onceuponadisneypodcast.com/episodes

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Larry Brenner is co-author, with Andie Redwine, of a screenwriting craft book, working title Write Like a Mouse: Analyzing Disney Movies to Develop Your Craft. Brenner’s screenplay Bethlehem was a winner of Final Draft’s Big Break Contest. He has also written Labyrinth for Walt Disney Pictures and Angelology for SONY/Columbia Pictures. His play Saving Throw Versus Love was produced as part of the 2010 New York International Fringe Festival and was selected for the Fringe Encore Series.